‘Songs are fundamentally autobiographical.’
Miss Judy Collins is American music royalty. For over sixty years, she has blessed the world with a blend of folk, country, rock ‘n roll, standards and everything in between. A Grammy Award winning, Oscar nominated and – above all – most kind lady who kindly provided more than forty minutes to talk about her new album ‘SPELLBOUND’. For the very first time in her career, she is the author and songwriter of every composition on the record. Quite the major accomplishment. Thanks to a zoom call from New York to Antwerp, Keys and Chords is proud to present the one and only miss Judy Collins. Read on …
Julian De Backer: ‘Miss Collins, you did a bang-up job with the new album. Did the writing and the recording go smoothly, or was it more of a back-and-forth process?’
Miss Judy Collins: ‘It was fine. It took a long time, longer than expected, because of the pandemic. We had the first session for this album in 2019, and we recorded about six songs. Most of those were keepers, and then we had three more live sessions. When we go into the studio, we go in with a live group: we all sing and play live. The studios love that, because it’s so unusual. Most of the time, people come in with a little chip that has some music on it. But we had wonderful live sessions and a few final vocal sessions.’ Julian: ‘Did you leave out certain songs?’ Miss Collins: ‘There’s a song called ‘The Moon’ which I’m going to use on another project. It’s a matter of what you find yourself more attracted to than others. ‘The Moon’ was recorded and mixed, but the vocals are not final. I always have plans with the other songs, they’re not lost in my vault. There’s always another time.’ Julian: ‘When you’re recording, you’re the face of the band, the gentle leader as I presume. Do you allow improvisations or suggestions from your musicians?’ Miss Collins: ‘Oh sure. I have a wonderful music director who works with me and travels with me. Now we’ve celebrated thirty years of working together. We don’t even have to say anything (laughs). He does it, I don’t like it, he does it differently, I’ll like it and I’ll say: ‘This is all great, don’t do anything’. He’s wonderful to work with, a great musician. Russell Walden is his name, he has a credit as a co-producer.’ Julian: ‘After working together for so long, you understand each other without saying a word, I guess.’ Miss Collins: ‘Without even saying a word, indeed.’ Julian: ‘Do you remember the first song you’ve ever written?’ Miss Collins: ‘In 1966, I got a call from a friend of mine who had grown up with Leonard Cohen and was very close to him. She’d been talking about him for quite a number of months, she called him ‘a friend who is a poet’. I didn’t know him. She said: ‘Leonard wants to come and see you, he wants to play you his new songs’. I had never written a song, at all. I had made five albums: the first few were filled with traditional songs, and then I started recording the songs of the city/Village singers like Dylan, Tom Paxton, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, et cetera. Some of them didn’t have a recording deal out, but it was great to sing their songs. I did them a service by recording them. Leonard came over to my house, played me ‘Suzanne’, ‘Dress Rehearsal Rag’ and ‘The Stranger Song’ and I said: ‘Well, I’ll have to record ‘em’. I have never recorded ‘The Stranger Song’, but I will get there eventually. After ‘Suzanne’ became a big item, and Leonard and I became friends, he said to me: ‘I don’t understand why you’re not writing your own songs’. So I came home, sat down at my Steinway piano, noodled for a while, and I wrote ‘Since You’ve Asked’. That, together with ‘Albatross’ and ‘Sky Fell’, were my first three songs. They were included on an album called ‘Wildflower’, the same album that had ‘Both Sides Now’ on it. It got a lot of exposure, and I’ve been writing songs ever since. ‘Spellbound’, my new album, is the first time I’ve ever done an album full of my own compositions. Most albums had a couple of my own songs, but never a full album.’ Julian: ‘It’s amazing, a major accomplishment.’ Miss Collins: ‘I’m thrilled that I could do it, it’s been most fun and a most wonderful challenge. It’s been healthy for my writing psyche all the way ‘round. I’ve written a number of books over the years, most of them are memoirs. Memoirs are a natural avenue for me, and I think songs are fundamentally autobiographical.’ Julian: ‘Not all of them are, but most of them have at least a foundation of something that happened to the songwriter.’ Miss Collins: ‘It’s always rooted in something, right.’ Julian: ‘I really think it’s impressive you made such a strong album after so many years in the business. It sounds like a statement. And your voice has aged like fine wine. I’ll recommend it to all my bluegrass loving friends.’ Miss Collins: ‘Haha, thank you, thank you! You’re in Belgium now, right?’ Julian: ‘Yes.’ Miss Collins: ‘We have a favorite show that’s made in Belgium: ‘Professor T.’’ Julian: ‘Oh, really? You know ‘Professor T.’?’ Miss Collins: ‘We’re very big fans of ‘Professor T.’’ Julian: ‘Is it a remake? Or are you watching the original?’ Miss Collins: ‘We’re watching the original, in Dutch, with English subtitles. We started watching it three years ago, when it first started coming out. It’s distributed by PBS (Public Broadcasting Service). They’ve picked up the last few episodes. We just love it, we keep recommending it to friends. ‘Professor T.? What’s that?’ and then they get excited about it.’ Julian: ‘I had no idea the show had reached the United States. I’m going to forward your love to the production company.’ Miss Collins: ‘Please do, we talk about it all the time.’ Julian: ‘Let’s see if I have another question for you. I think it’s quite awesome that THE Leonard Cohen put you on the path towards songwriting. You can be inspired by anyone, but you were inspired by one of the greatest songwriters of all time.’ Miss Collins: ‘It’s super. Leonard was the most incredible friend. I was never involved with him romantically, thank god, but ever since we met, he was on my side. He has been incredibly helpful, and even put a lot of money into two of my recent television concerts. You know, I have to raise the money myself. You call for money, and they might find a couple of big funders. David Geffen does a good job, too. I called Leonard about it, and he came up with one hundred thousand dollars. Leonard sent the cheque to the television station, they give him the credit of the donation - so that looks good on his profile - and then they sent the money to me for my production team. He’s supported me in all kinds of ways. Returning the favor, I gave him the information about the fact that he could sing in public. When he met me, he said: ‘I’m never going to sing, I have a terrible voice’. Then in 1967, I pushed him on stage at a big fundraiser that we were doing for WBAI, which is a public radio station here in New York. It’s limping along, but it’s still going. I said: ‘You are going to come with me’. Because by now, ‘Suzanne’ was a big song. Everybody’s was dying to hear him sing it. I pushed him on the stage, and he started singing, and then he broke down and started sobbing. I have witnesses to this, I couldn’t see it because I was off-stage waiting. So he came on stage, he said: ‘I can’t go on’, I said: ‘Yes, you can, I’ll go back with you and we can sing it together’. After he finished, everybody went nuts. Of course, he got it. He understood that this was what he was going to be doing. By the time the year rolled around, he had a contract with Columbia.’ Julian: ‘Such a great story.’ Miss Collins: ‘The both of us did good things for one another. He started me writing, I started him singing. That’s not bad.’ Julian: ‘Did you remain friends until the end?’ Miss Collins: ‘Oh, yes. He was a remarkable man.’ Julian: ‘Have you ever listened to other versions of famous songs you’ve done? For example, ‘Amazing Grace’ by Elvis Presley or ‘Both Sides Now’ by Clannad?’ Miss Collins: ‘No. Well, I might have heard some version along the way, but I never made it a point to seek ‘em out. Bill Moyers called me one day, a long time ago, and said ‘I’m making a television special about ‘Amazing Grace’, and I’m getting quite a lot of artists to sing it. I want you to sing your version.’ We went to St. Paul’s Chapel on the grounds of the Columbia University campus to record it. I don’t think Bill was ever able to get the rights to that special, because he wants to put it out again. It was a wonderful show. The song’s a classic.’ Julian: ‘You mention ‘a girl from Colorado’ on your new album – which is you, I presume. You are ‘The Girl from Colorado’. Do you remember what it was like, growing up in Colorado? Because you didn’t stay there, you moved around the country.’ Miss Collins: ‘I lived there from 1949 to 1960, when I moved to Connecticut. I spent my teenage years in Colorado, and I spent a lot of time working in the mountains, in the guest ranches and the lodges. I ran a lodge with my husband in the Rocky Mountain National Park in 1958. He and I were offered jobs to run the firewatch at the Twin Sisters Peak (mountains in Colorado). The only reason we didn’t do it, was because I had a cast from my toes to my hip due to a skiing accident. If we had had an emergency, I wouldn’t have been able to get out. I couldn’t ride a horse, either. Instead, we went to Chicago and I took the job I was offered there, which was six weeks at the ‘Gate of Horn’, a historic folk music club established and started by Al Grossman (Bob Dylan’s manager, amongst others). He became a very good friend of mine. My memories of growing up in Colorado are extremely vivid. My whole musical life as a concert pianist was there. I played with the orchestra at age 13 and I was supposed to be playing again at 16, but by then I had found folk music and I had to abandon Rachmaninov. A New York painter, I believe it was Jules Olitski, used to say: ‘If you live to be 20, you have enough material for the rest of your life’.’ Julian: ‘Who is the male voice in your song ‘Hell on Wheels’?’ Miss Collins: ‘Ari Hest. I met him in 2013. We started touring together, and then we started recording. I recorded a song of his called ‘Strangers Again’ as a duet. A great song, it should have been a bigger hit. Then we wrote an album together called ‘Silver Skies Blue’. Once in a while, we’re able to do concerts together. He was on all of these sessions, playing the guitar, and adding harmony where we thought it was appropriate. I think he’s a great, great artist. He helped me to write that song, ‘Hell on Wheels’. Ari and I are doing a salute to Leonard Cohen in April of 2022. We’ll probably sing ‘Hey, That’s No Way to Say Goodbye’ together. Leonard and I also sung that together. I miss him.’ Julian: ‘The American Songbook canon has a great many songs about foreclosure, dilapidation, ghost towns, lost architecture. You’ve been around for more than 80 years. Do you still recognize the America from your youth when you walk around today, and if not, has it changed for the better?’ Miss Collins: ‘I think it all depends on where you are. One of my brothers, an old-fashioned talented builder, is still working at a place called ‘The Antlers’. In his early twenties, he built ninety pine lodges in the Vail and Aspen area. They’re still around, a lot of people like that architecture, and in Vail there are a lot of restrictions on what you can do, so it hasn’t been screwed up badly. Aspen is still reminiscent, the main street is pretty much still the same. It’s all very discreet. Idaho Springs: very similar. Mountain towns very much hold their own. Most of Colorado, I would say, has remained. New York City? Not so much. There’s a big section midtown, I don’t even know what it’s called anymore. There’s always Frank Gehry building a museum somewhere. But the fundamental inner structure of New York City has remained. I have lived here for almost sixty years, I moved here in 1963 for good. Some things are still New York. I’ve written a song called ‘City of Awakening’, that’s definitely an homage to a city that’s been through a pandemic and is still standing. Did you have a lockdown in Belgium?’ Julian: ‘Yeah, we had four of them.’ Miss Collins: ‘We’ve had a few, too. I haven’t been to Belgium, except once or twice. I understand that I’m going to sing in Antwerp.’ Julian: ‘Oh, that’s news to me. I should come. It’s very close to me.’ Miss Collins: ‘In the fall of 2022, I’ll be playing a few Dutch cities, and Antwerp.’ Julian: ‘You’ve made an Oscar nominated movie ‘Antonia: A Portrait of the Woman’. The conductor Antonia Brico was Dutch-born. When did you first hear about her?’ Miss Collins: ‘She was my teacher. She and I met when I was eleven, and she spotted a willing subject, I guess you could say. Because I worked like a maniac. She immediately understood that I would follow through. She had her debut when she was twenty-seven with the Berlin Philharmonic. Then she came here, she conducted the San Francisco Symphony at the Hollywood Bowl. She was the first person to conduct the New York Philharmonic twice. Can you believe there was a male singer who refused to be conducted by a woman? His name was John Charles Thomas …’ Julian: ‘You’ll never forget that name.’ Miss Collins: ‘Antonia Brico had a huge career! Marin Alsop, who conducts the Baltimore Symphony, has some ego because she says there never was a female conductor before she started. That’s not true. It’s too bad she has to be such an idiot and not be grateful to who came before her. Anyway, Antonia Brico was my teacher. I was working on Rachmaninov when I discovered folk music, and I told her I couldn’t go on with classical music. She and I remained friends. I knew her story and I knew she was a foster child who was kidnapped from her single mother. Terrible story, a pregnant woman disowned by her family. The foster parents decided to steal her and take her to America. She had some life. When the movie came out in 1975, it was nominated for an Academy Award. I got to swing around with Robert Redford, that was exciting. As a result of the renewed attention, all the orchestras wanted her. She even conducted the London Philharmonic. It really irks me that Marin Alsop ignores this. My co-director and I, we really saved her career. She was able to go on, she was conducting again. I’m very grateful and very happy to have been in her life. When I told her I was going to make a movie about her, she said: ‘Ah, everybody says they’re going to make a movie about me, and nobody does!’ (laughs) But we brought it together. It cost me about a hundred thousand dollar, and I was happy to spend it. I had a great experience doing it.’ Julian: ‘Did you know there’s a recent Dutch movie about Antonia Brico?’ Miss Collins: ‘Yes, ‘The Conductor’. I thought it was a lovely movie, very very good.’ Julian: ‘Miss Collins, I would like to thank you for your time.’ Miss Collins: ‘My pleasure, my pleasure.’ Julian: ‘Have a lovely day in New York City, and hopefully, we’ll see each other at the end of the year, in Antwerp.’ Miss Collins: ‘Thanks, Julian. By the way, we have another connection: I sing ‘Marieke’ in French and Flemish.’ (starts singing) Julian: ‘Miss Collins, you’re full of surprises.’ Miss Collins: ‘All right, my dear, take care.’ Julian: ‘Thank you!’ |
Julian De Backer © 2022 for Keys and Chords
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